How a 3-Week Trip Became Forever

Transcript

Introduction & welcome

Hello and welcome to Mallorca Living, a space dedicated to those planning to make Mallorca their home. Today, I’m here with Karen and Andreas from the Anyscale Architectural Firm. We are going to hear their inspiring journey during the pandemic, moving from China to Mallorca with their three children and settling them into a new life here on the island. Let’s find out more.

Hello and welcome. I’m Helen Cummins and I’m here today with Karen Heep and Andreas Tomczyk from Anyscale, and we’re going to hear about their journey from China to Mallorca during uncertain times and how they have managed to settle their family here while setting up their business in Europe. You’re very welcome, Karen and Andreas. Thank you very much for being here with us today.

From China to Mallorca: How a 3-week trip became forever

So, what was the motivation for you to leave your very successful career in business in Asia and decide to move back to Europe and particularly Mallorca?

It was not a particular decision, it came along, it evolved over a long period of time. We lived for 15 years in Beijing in China and all our three children were born there, and we have our business there in Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong. And during that period, we started to feel that we needed a kind of family hub, a home, not only in China but also in Europe. And then we were looking for many different locations and we picked Mallorca. And then the timing itself was more forced through COVID, through the pandemic. We planned, initially we planned to be here always during the holidays, the summer times and the winter times, and still evolve our business in China. But then, through the pandemic, we were somehow stranded here over a period of time and then took the decision to stay here.

And this decision, I mean, to stay here, it took us 12 months, right? So basically, we came here in early COVID, 2020, January, always thinking we would move back next month, next month. We came back with all the children, so they had online schooling, but then step by step, we recognized that because China completely closed their borders, we might not be able to go back soon. And then, I would say, in the middle of the year, during summertime, both of us decided, “Okay, maybe we need to at least temporarily look for an international school on the island,” let’s say for six months, until the end of 2021.

You already had a home here at that point?

Yes, we had a home. We bought it, I think, in 2018 or 2019. We bought it and then it was not renovated yet, but we used it then. So that was not the issue. It was more the issue of how we would handle the children and their education, because that was difficult for anybody during COVID, but in our case, it was basically with no social network. So they had basically the China time online every night, so we knew that this wouldn’t proceed for a long time. You can do it for one, two, three months, but you cannot do it for a year. There was this other aspect, if you do always online schooling, you have no social network, and at that time, our children were just starting to be teenagers, I mean, the bigger ones, and it’s very boring to be always with the parents at home, right? And very isolated.

I saw it with my own daughter here during that period. It became almost like their life became very small.

Very small and they like to actually, in this period of time, they like to expand. So it was a very tough time, I would say, for our two teenagers, and that gave us, we just decided, “Okay, we need to have a social community for them. We need to send them to school here.”

Buying a house before the move

Was it an accident that you were here at the time of the lockdown or was it a pre…

I think it’s a good question. It was a kind of an accident. So we bought the house in 2019, in October, and I had to pay to buy the house, get the key on the 25th of January, 2020. So I flew over only for three days.

Yourself, right?

Myself, just me. I bought the house and I flew back because we were very full of work in China. And on the airplane, I already felt something strange in Beijing because in China, the COVID was earlier, obviously, than in Europe and more restrictive. And then we got a hint from our nanny, actually. She had a, we got a hint that she said to us, “If you really want to be sure that you should leave also with the kids now.” Which means the day after Karen decided to leave with the kids, thinking, “Okay, it will be for three weeks.” This is giving me goosebumps when I think back of it. It was, it was, Wuhan was closed at that time and there was the rumor that Beijing also would close down pretty fast and then they would close down the airport. And I think we flew out on the 26th then. 26th of January. Me and the kids.

Which I really remember at that time because I, I still went skiing in February, and at that moment it hadn’t quite arrived to Europe. We were still very, “This is not going to happen. It can’t happen.”

I think in Europe we were at a very different, extremely unreal. And I remember I arrived at the Zurich airport to take the next flight to Palma and I was the only one, literally the only single person in the whole airport wearing a mask.

And they would look at me and say, “Who is this guy?”

They would say, two months later, “Everybody is wearing a mask everywhere.” But probably at that moment in China it was absolutely normal.

I couldn’t even enter the airport without wearing a mask. We were not allowed to take it off.

So you were at a completely different stage in the evolution of the pandemic than we were at that point. So you flew over, got the keys of your house, and then, within, but you flew back, I guess. No, no, you ended up staying.

No, we had a talk. So he arrived. I called him that the airport is going to close soon. Either we fly out as well or we might be separate for, I don’t know, some weeks, right? It would have been months without knowing. And then we decided that we also take a flight.

Such a big decision. Crazy, in such a short time. We just arrived with each one with a suitcase, but not many clothes. And this was to your new home. So tell us about your new home. Where did you choose for your home in Mallorca?

I have to be a bit more precise. So we, we had an apartment in Palma, which was ready and was rented out before to Airbnb and other people, which was empty at that time. So we went into the apartment. It’s a small apartment, actually. Now it’s the Anyscale office. We turned it into our office later on. But because the house was not ready yet, I bought the house but it needed renovation. So we couldn’t move in before COVID. So we spent the whole COVID in Spain in our apartment in Palma.

Living in Palma during the pandemic & renovating their new home

Wow, which must have been a challenge because it was pretty tough here too with the lockdown.

It was tough, yeah. On the other hand, it’s a, I would say it’s a great memory, I think. It’s a special memory, yeah, let’s say. And then after, after the lockdown here, these 42 days, I remember, I think, or 47 days, then we started to renovate it and we moved in in August or at the end of July.

Because construction continued here as per normal.

Exactly. So that was, we used actually the lockdown to find a construction company. Which was good. And then you, obviously, you could do the plans, the design, and maybe you may never have had that opportunity to do your home with such care. We may never have thought about it if you were busy doing projects for everybody else, right?

Yeah, that’s true. But we couldn’t believe it yet, right? It was this whole year, 2020, was a year of uncertainty and constant exchange of thoughts. “Do we, do we take the right decisions?” And normally we have a very open family policy. Our both older ones, all of them, but the older ones because of their maturity, we can share very openly our thoughts and then discuss among the family members and then make a decision together. But in this period, Karen and I, we recognized we needed to talk through things just the two of us before then finding the right way to communicate, because it’s too massive. Right? If you tell your kids you won’t go back to where you were born in the next, whatever, five years or whatever, this is massive and they lose basically with one sentence they lose all their friends. I mean, digitally they are still connected, but you know it makes a big difference. So that was heavy stuff, I have to say, yeah. Also for ourselves, we were always discussing back and forth, what are the options, how could we decide? And because it was your whole life.

Not just the whole life, it’s your business, your friends, your everything.

Yes, it’s everything. And in a half an hour you literally left everything behind, decided to leave everything behind and move here. We were not aware of that at that moment, but when you look back now it’s incredible. So you’ve continued your life here and we’re now five years on. And how has life been for you for the last, in terms of settling in as a family and like you touched on with the schools, what was the next step once things started to become normal again?

How their architecture business adapted

Business-wise, it was interesting because so we just continued with our business.

Both of you are architects?

Exactly. We have the, yeah, we have the same office. We founded the office together with our friend and partner, Tom. He’s Chinese. He’s still in China. So basically we worked fully online, which was easy in COVID and also in 2021, 2022, because COVID was still around also in China. So our clients found it easy to accept that we were just online. And during that period of time we actually, our plan was never to have an office here. But friends started to ask us for help with their house or apartment. And I think in 2023, we finally founded our office here in Palma, in Mallorca. And meanwhile, we are doing business in Mallorca, but also we do business in Munich and in mainland Spain. But it just evolved somehow. It grew naturally. It came first with the relocation and then it came naturally that we said, “Okay, we also expand our business to here.”

Brilliant. And you continue to have projects in China?

Yes, we still have. China’s huge, right? So the sheer amount of projects in China is still not comparable to, let’s say, Spain, right? It’s just a huge country. So there’s a lot of things going on. So we still have this up and running, the offices in Shanghai and Beijing, Hong Kong, and but Karen and I, we really focus on the European market, let’s say, Spanish or Mallorca. We started from Mallorca, then mainly Spain, and because I’m German, Munich, we have some projects there, and yeah, we run all these three offices or four at the same time and steering them.

I would like to add one thing which I always felt why we should open the office here. So as Karen said, it was very accepted that we are online, right? And no one questioned, “Where are these guys? Are they in Europe or sitting in Beijing?” Because anyway, everybody was online, no one met face to face in China for, I would say, a period of two years, so it was easy to hide where you are. On the other hand, our staff, right, they see us in beautiful Mallorca. We’ll come to that point later, whereas they are in a bustling, dirty metropolis, Beijing, with 22 million inhabitants. So they could be easily saying, “Andy and Karen or Andreas and Karen, they escaped to Spain and now they have a happy life and they don’t work anymore,” which is not right. First is right, because Mallorca obviously is more beautiful and hopefully you have a happy life. But people don’t see the difficulty and also the luck you need to proceed, right, to make this all successfully. It’s a, it’s, as I tried to describe, for us, this decision making is a very difficult process and you can easily fail, right? You also need to have fortune on your side. So and then I thought, “Okay, if we tell them very clearly, we have, we open an office, we start the same again here in Europe, we have people working, we work on projects,” then this whole picture is a different picture than just seeing us on a sun deck at the pool, of course. So I think for me, this was always my thinking.

Managing teams across continents

That you, yeah, you want to maintain that level of professionalism and so on with your team. How big is your team in Asia in total?

We have 40. We had 50 before COVID, right? We had to reduce a little bit. Now we are, we, the minimum was, I think, 30. Now we are back to 40. Yeah, 40. That’s a big team. That’s a lot going on. So you’re overseeing all their work from here with your partner.

Exactly. We share the work, Tom, Karen, and me.

Real estate & development in China today

In China, just on a kind of side note, because it’s a very interesting period for construction and development in China at the moment. What is your view of it? Because from the outside looking in, it looks like kind of, it’s, it’s somehow collapsing, the whole real estate market and development market in China. Is that your impression or…?

Well, I would not say it’s collapsing, but it certainly is under huge pressure, but it’s especially under huge pressure on the big projects, like the big architectural projects. That means big is huge. Big is huge. Yeah, big is like building a 100,000 square meters for one development in one project. So they are under pressure and the market is, the government tries everything to control it. So private real estate developers who are close to bankruptcy, the government just buys them out to keep the business up and running. And even though we are architects, so we are trained architects and most of our leaders are trained architects, we focus on the interior design, which means the projects are relatively smaller and so for big companies it’s easier to give the green light to a smaller project, an interior project.

And probably the developments already happened, so now it’s more the finishing up.

Exactly. So it’s the completion of, yeah. And it’s also easier to control costs on their side. So therefore, I think we don’t feel it, I mean, we feel it, sure, 2006 to 2018 was like a rocket going only in one direction. No, that’s not anymore. It’s more sideways, but I would say it’s more stable than maybe people from outside looking towards China think.

I suppose the fear is how long is it sustainable? That’s, I think, the question that a lot, and globally we are extremely dependent also on a healthy economy in the likes of China. So exactly. You know, I mean, you’re at the forefront of that, but of course it will affect all of us. Yeah, that’s true.

Finding clients: Europe vs. China

So can I ask you, how does it compare to find, you know, to attract clients for your business now in Europe compared to your experience in China? Because you grew your business in a time when there was a massive growth economy. We’re not having that experience in Europe. So are you finding the market more competitive here? Is it more difficult, more challenging to get, to attract new clients?

I think competition is similar or the same almost everywhere. We are also trying to work in Dubai now. So there’s always competition, but clients are different and the approach is different. So in China, there was and still there is, everything is a pitch. Now you can say, let’s say, a pitch of at least three architects trying to get the same project at the same time, three to 10, I would say, that’s the normal size of a pitch. All these pitches are not following, like, strict regulations, like, for instance, in Germany, right? In Germany, everything is regulated. In China, each client can decide how they want to do it and the pitch is pretty personal, I would say. So it’s open, you present, it’s about commercial, etc., etc., but it’s a pitch. It’s seldom that someone asks you, “Can you work for me, just you?” It’s always, Chinese are very commercial people. They know how to bargain and they want to get ideas and they choose the best out of the best, out of the best, out of the best, and then if you fulfill all these requirements, well, then you get the project. So that’s China.

To get invited, maybe I need to add this one, to get invited in the pitch, that’s you get recommended. So you don’t beg for it, right? So we had a, our reputation is very high. Meanwhile, we built this up, and so we have, we don’t need to apply for pitches. We get asked and then we can say yes or no, we take part or not, depending on the client, chance, etc. And then I think here in Mallorca, it’s more like Karen said, it’s, it’s very much we, well, we are, it’s more like recommendation. So it’s not that we find the client, it’s almost more the client finds us. That we meet people, they ask us what we are doing, they look at our portfolio, they find it interesting, then they ask us if we would help them with their house or if we could make an offer for their house. And then somebody sees something on Instagram or I don’t know, somewhere in social media or in ABC Mallorca. Yes, hopefully, our office is helping and then we, yeah, we just start a communication and usually these leads that we are invited to do maybe also a first concept.

What makes Anyscale’s approach & creative process unique

I’m really curious to know what do you think is your unique selling point? Whatever you want to call it, but what do you feel is your, and and probably I think it’s interesting because you have this background in Asia and because you’ve had this exposure to huge projects which probably aren’t comparable really to here. So what, how has that helped you to maybe have a competitive…?

I think from the beginning, before we even thought about having an office in Europe, we always had two beliefs. The first one is, no matter what scale of a project, you need to have a same kind of creative approach, right? So creative thinking is a process, yes, and it’s the same if I design a glass, a table, a whole interior, or a whole house. It’s always, you need to, you need to always decide what is more important, what is less important. And it’s not necessarily the style, right? So it’s a kind of process of thinking and this we can apply in China, we can apply it in Europe, no problem, that’s one thing. What is unique is that we have not decided on one direction, right? We are not the Mediterranean architects, we are not the Chinese architects, and we are also not the German or foreign architects in China. We always said, “Okay, we are open for any scale of the project, right?” Designing a furniture until a whole school, for instance, but we also open to the style. So each project is like a, if you have children, you know, you think, “Oh, they’re all from my husband and me,” but each of them has a completely different character, right? That’s a learning as parents. And it’s the same for our, that’s how we consider our projects. So each project has its own personality, its own completely.

Yes.

I think it’s somehow interwoven. It’s, it’s the design approach, it’s the personality of the client, I would say, it’s the location where we design it, and then with this, it’s somehow, we create something very boutique just for this specific project. And therefore each project is somehow also unique. It’s not like you see our photos or our project, you see, “Yeah, this is Anyscale,” but if you see all of them together, you say, “Okay, this is the spirit of Anyscale.” So it’s this approach, yeah, yeah.

No, I think this is really interesting. And then I think also one more thing, which is, it’s not difficult to, it’s difficult to achieve. So we have founded our office in 2010. So now you can say our office is 14 years old.

Experience from 400+ global projects

What, let’s say, a Barcelona-based architect, how many projects can he do in 14 years? Maybe, I’m just guessing, let’s say four per year, right? Not bad, right? Four completed projects per year. In China, this is 25 to 30 projects per year, for sure.

Wow. So in 10 years you have 400 projects completed or 300, depending. So, and we all know, the best experience is, you just do it, right? You can talk about everything, a nice creative designs, but once you, you are on site, the experience, the experience is so valuable. So we have this enormous amount of experience, and that’s about projects, but also about people, the clients, obviously, about the whole construction process, the creative process, the solutions to problems.

Building in Mallorca: challenges & tips

So I’m so curious to ask you, how does constructing a house here compare?

You can answer. I want to know the good, the bad, and the ugly. I want to know. Please tell us.

You need more patience. Okay? You need a lot more patience.

Okay, patience. Patience is a word we hear a lot on my Mallorca Living podcast. A lot.

You might need more time than you have expected up front. Always.

What about the expertise available on the island? Because I have to say, I’ve, I’ve, it’s diverse. But I have renovated this house a couple of times myself, and you know, in the end, the result is limited to the ability of the craftsmanship that you have at your availability. So what is it like here in Mallorca?

Well, I think the most difficult thing is to find the right people and then if they really have time to do your project.

Exactly. Because usually the really good ones are booked. They’re loyal to their, you know, so for you to break in, to attract them to come and work for you, it’s a challenge.

Yeah, we work very hard on that part. We try to establish teams around us which work with us and continue working with us, right, to establish that. But it obviously takes a little bit of time and also each project is a little bit different. So, for example, we have some projects where new construction is different from a project which is a renovation of maybe a historic possession or something like this. You need a completely different, you know, it hasn’t, it’s not stopping you, but it’s been a challenge is what I’m hearing.

Well, it’s a challenge and we don’t mind challenges. So we just keep, we just keep continuing working on it. So if we, we have the feeling, “Okay, this is not working out,” we just continue searching for the right.

I’ve heard over the years of, particularly probably German people and British also, they bring constructors from their home country in. Would, is that something you would consider and did you have to resort to that?

We have experience with, for example, carpenters, that some German carpenters work in one of our projects, also with, but they’re based in Germany and they brought in or suggested by the client in this case and they bring in the furniture and they bring also the people to install the furniture on site.

Carpentry, I have to say, is a big issue. Even tables I got made for our office, I did actually get them made in Germany because the, the lead time and and even cost and everything was much…

We work also with companies from mainland Spain, from Barcelona. It’s also easy now with the ferries. It’s, it’s getting more easy actually to deliver things to Mallorca. So I think it’s important to have a mixture for the construction company itself, we use companies from the island. And what about the quality? This is also very diverse, I have to say. Yeah, it’s very diverse. With some they are very good and you, you ask if…

Licensing, local architects & growing their team

If they can do your project, they tell you, “Yeah, I can do your project, but maybe at the end of 2026 or 2027.” So then it’s about the timing, if to find the right team for the right time, that’s a challenge. But you’re working on it. I think so far we always found a solution.

In Mallorca, if you start a new business here, sooner or later, you need the official license as an architect. This was one of the, and that’s the same in Germany, it’s the same in China, I think it’s everywhere. So if someone is coming new to the island, you need to buy that in. “Okay, I cannot now spend time on getting the Spanish license,” it just doesn’t work. We don’t have the time. So which we did in the beginning, we collaborated with local architects. I’m not complaining, it was okay, but we recognized that the way they work, especially also the speed they work, is different to what we are used to. And then we came to the conclusion, it took us maybe some projects, I have to say, it took us some projects to come to the conclusion that we needed to really employ someone who would like to work with us and bring in the license, which is a, I think, I would say, is the biggest step in our development. And it was a good decision. It was an extremely good decision. We are so happy about it.

It is a completely different thing to bring somebody in and they adapt to your culture, having somebody at arm’s length that you’re completely reliant on and work in a very different way. I completely understand what you’re saying, because I’ve probably had the same experience throughout my business time.

But it’s like, it’s true what you say, it’s kind of, you come across different challenges and then you need maybe to do one or two projects, have the experience, then figure out, “This isn’t really going to work for us and how can we get around it,” right? The, and this, for example, you have the basic project which you hand in as a submission and then you have the executive project and during, usually in our case, we try this period in between, we try to find the construction team. And that means we need to plan a lot ahead, which is very difficult if you work together with a local architect, because he follows the stages of the project. So with our in-house team now, we, we can completely cover this gap and we, we actually gain time to find the right construction team. So I think this is the benefit.

An important question is how important is Mallorca for you for Anyscale, like, how important is the market in Mallorca compared to, like you have the potential for Europe, for, for, you know, for…?

That’s a good question. So it’s not important yet, or not so important yet, in terms of the, let’s say, commercial overall commercial, because as I said, in China, projects are still more, still bigger, so the sheer amount is higher than our, if you look at our four offices, Palma is still the smallest one, but is the most growing one.

Great. But what is very important is, and I have to come back to China, right? Chinese like to look overseas because they feel in their country, even though it’s big, they feel they, they want to know and they also, they want to know what’s going on in the US, what’s going on in Europe, so and they know certain qualities in Europe are much higher still. And then saying, “Yeah, well, Anyscale is also working in Europe and they’re doing this and that project,” and that’s very interesting also to them. And also the style, right? We are certainly not neglecting the Mediterranean style, right? We have implemented it in our work and we, I would say, we welcome it very much. And then also our customers back in Asia, they welcome this to look at it and welcome this very much. So one of our personal targets, Tom, Karen, and myself, is to really, despite the bad politics on a global level at the moment, we in our small entity, we try to completely work cross-border and in both directions, right? And that makes a lot of fun, joy, and also enhances this cultural exchange. So, for example, we have staff from Beijing who came here and spent some time with us here in the office. One settled down on Mallorca, by the way. That would be another very interesting interview, because on a different level, on an employed level. One settled down, so she completely moved here, and and the other, we did an exchange. She’s from China, married with a UK guy, and yeah, they are settling down here to found a family in Mallorca as a young couple.

Great. Super. I love that it’s, and I think it’s vice versa. I think you are also very attractive for people here because of the enormity of your experience. And I think also when it comes to commercial projects, so you have mentioned in previous interviews that the hospitality industry here in Mallorca, you find it very interesting. Is this one of your goals, to maybe have some hotel, restaurant projects?

Well, we have done a very nice boutique hotel in China. It was a refurbishment of an antique, 300-year-old, yes, mansion and heritage. And we see definitely this potential here as well. So I think for me, I would really like to do a boutique hotel or something, not the very big ones, because anyway, they have the international designers, but a boutique hotel, I think that would be something nice for us as well.

And you mentioned, like obviously you’re architects so you design the whole building, but you’re very focused on the interior side.

I think both, yeah, yeah. 70% is interior projects and 30% architecture projects. In Europe now it’s more and more architecture, while back in Asia it’s more interior, but in China or in Asia, interior projects can be very big, like 25,000, 30,000 square meters for one project. The majority of our projects are between 1,000 and 2,000 square meters. So they’re not, if you do an interior project here, probably it’s, it’s very small, maybe 200 square meters, or 700 square meters. So it’s so interesting, but I would encourage anybody listening to go and have a look at your portfolio online because it’s very, really very impressive and I think that people can see for themselves the, the great projects you’ve done in the past and and hopefully you’re going to bring a lot more of that experience and uniqueness to Mallorca.

Raising their multilingual kids in Mallorca

So I’d like to focus now a little bit on your family life. So you have three children. Your eldest is 19.

19. Same as my daughter.

Same class. He’s studying in Amsterdam, business administration, international, in English and in the first year, so he’s just about to finish. Exactly, he didn’t do the gap year, right? It’s his first year and will continue. But he wants to become a commercial pilot as well. And then later, that’s his target. Why I’m talking about it, he wants to combine it, business administration on an international level, commercial pilot, and see what he can do in something in the world of aviation.

Exactly, the world of aviation. And your children speak fluent Chinese, right?

They speak fluent Chinese, the older ones. So that’s a gift. Yeah, it’s a gift. And yeah, they enjoy also, they are, I would say, they are proud. I mean, they went to Chinese International School in Beijing, so they are able to read and write as well Chinese. So they have and they have German, is it? German, English and Chinese. Spanish and Spanish and now Spanish. Oh my gosh, this is just phenomenal. I mean, with that cocktail of cultures and languages, there’s so many incredible possibilities for the future, right? It’s very exciting.

So that’s the eldest boy. You have a daughter, she is in IB1, so a DP1, which means she will finish next year. And she’s at the, your two younger children are at the Academy?

The Academy, exactly. And okay, so first year of IB.

First year of IB, exactly. And then your youngest son, year five in the academy.

Adapting as a family: children’s transition from China

So how was it for your children moving from Asia to Mallorca and entering into the educational system here in Europe?

I think the transition phase itself was tough for them because they knew that they needed to leave all their friends behind and it might be that they never see them again. But Mallorca is a nice place. So we experienced that friends really love to come and visit. So they have seen most of their friends again since then. For their whole life, we see a big enrichment. So our plan initially was that they finish school in China and then they go for studies to Europe. But now with our move during their puberty, they actually had the great joy to experience the Chinese culture. They grew up in a Chinese culture, were born there, but at the same time also experienced European culture, which is very different. And I think that really enriched their experience, I have to say.

School systems: China vs. international schools

How do the local schools here compare to Asia?

They are very small. So if you go to school in China, you have four or five classes in one grade, per grade. So 100, 120 students per grade. So the school itself is huge. You have 1,000 or 1,500 students in one school. So it’s huge. And here, it’s relatively boutique in relation, because usually you have one class per grade or two sometimes. So that makes maybe the focus on the student more intensive here, more personal, I would say. More personal, yes. On each student and even for the whole class environment, it’s much more, yeah, it’s more personal here. Also, I would say, teacher relation, student teacher relation here is, they know more about each other. It’s very competitive. So if you are gifted with, let’s say, you’re intelligent or it’s easy for you to learn, then China is a great place, but if it’s hard for you to learn or you have other, whatever, focus or, yeah, then challenges, that can be very, very challenging because it’s not really accepted, right, and not supported at all for instance, yeah. I mean, exactly. In China, in the school, they’re very trained how to push the academics, how to support the children to really outperform also in the exams and that’s the culture. So that’s the culture, yes. It’s also the expectation of the Chinese families. So for our children, it was somehow easy to be good students and there we always had the feeling, “Okay, they are good students, they’re somewhere in the middle range.” When we came here, somehow they were suddenly the best. And I think it’s because the, the way of learning, the introduction of learning methods that helped them a lot and academically, how does the school compare? I think we are very happy. If you just look at the pure data, let’s say, what is the achievement in DP2 of a school versus the same achievement in an international school in China, maybe the only difference is, right? So you have the top people there, the top students, they are the same. What is in China less a little bit is the students which are not having good grades, high grades, so that’s less because everybody, so there’s everybody in the middle and up. So there’s only range in terms.

As a parent, you should not think about, “Oh, my child learns less or more in this or that school.” If I can, what the big learning is and we would have, without COVID, we would have not done it, right? From my standpoint of view now, is as Karen just described, we thought, “Okay, the children are born in Beijing, they spend their whole childhood in Beijing, and then because we are from Europe, they go back to Europe and studying there.” This is a misperception because now we see how much it brought to them, understanding in both different cultures during their childhood, not first and after. During their childhood, it’s not linear. Let’s say, it’s not linear. It’s, it’s a complete evolution. It’s more completed. It, it was challenging, but it gives them much more self-confidence for the future.

And I think this is the key. And also adaptable, because they’ve had to move from something they knew, very familiar, and move into a completely unknown and and work through that. So as you say, the confidence that that brings. So it, it is good for, like, many parents when they decide to move to Mallorca from from Germany or from wherever, their big fear is, “How are their children going to adapt and and integrate and will they suffer? Will it be the wrong decision? Will it be?” But we’ve heard time and time again, the only kind of positive thing. I’ve never heard anybody say, “It was the worst. It was a bad decision. We really messed up. We shouldn’t have done it.” It always seems to be so many things that are good coming out of it, even if there’s suffering in the process, let’s call it.

Yeah. All our three children, they, they, they went through different periods at different times. And each you, you go into a new culture and and a new society. So there is a, there are moments of insecurity, I would say. So when you go first day to a new school, you don’t, you’re not very self-confident, right? But when you recognize, “Okay, these people are nice, they are kind, there is a nice community,” it, it enhances your your confidence and then, I would say, after that process, you have more confidence than you had before. So I think it’s a process of a total enrichment. And also, I think the going to Mallorca, to such a beautiful place, right? That helps with a lot of sunshine. You have a super nice Spanish culture. You have a nice environment. You can do a lot of sports. And that’s also something I would like to add to before, because I think our children’s experience, they suddenly do music, right? They play drums, they sing, they do sports, they play tennis, football. So, I think there’s a lot of enrichment besides only the academics and the school.

Never be afraid of the academics everywhere. That’s my, my advice to if someone is asking me, “Can we move to Mallorca? Are the schools good enough? Are they big enough?” No worry. First of all, the schools are not bad here, right? But don’t worry too much. It’s just one part of the development of your children. And it’s not going to be a mistake.

Their daily life in Mallorca (Santa Maria, Alaro, Pollenca)

You chose to live, to buy a home in Santa Maria.

Santa Maria, exactly. So tell us what is life like in Santa Maria for a family?

Well, we chose it because, oh yeah. Well, it’s very funny. I found a house, oh yeah, okay. And it’s Alaro in, in Beijing. We really live downtown, dazzling downtown. And Andy always, apartment, or in a, in a ground floor, so we had a garden but in an apartment. And he always lived in cities, his whole life. And I found a house and it’s only vineyards, right? Our next neighbor is 150 meters. And it’s tucked away.

You’re in the countryside.

We are in the countryside. And he was very like, “Oh my god, I’m not sure if I can do that, if I can move from a downtown city to a countryside, pure countryside.” And now it’s actually, you really love it, right? You enjoy.

Well, now when you’re telling the story, I, I, I think I forgot about it, but it’s true. You know, you’re just saying, “Yeah, absolutely.” How far are you from the village of Santa Maria then?

4 kilometers.

Oh, so you have to, like, it’s not something you can walk.

Yeah.

You have to drive. So what’s your typical home life like then? So you’re not, you know, you’re not popping down to the cafe. You’re, you’re at home. You’re in the garden.

Yes, exactly. So we have a Monday to Friday life which is dominated by Palma because we bring the kids.

Your office is in Palma.

Exactly. So we bring the kids to school in Palma. The older ones, they sometimes come to Palma because they want to go to the drum class or whatever, to the city life, and then we all go back in the evening together.

Do you use the train or you come back?

Yeah, we use the car mainly. Mainly. But the kids use the train. Yeah. So it’s a huge benefit now, having this train.

Super. It’s come up time and time again that being part of this train line when you have teenage children makes your life a lot easier.

Yeah, exactly. And they enjoy it. It gives them a city life feeling, even though it’s country and freedom also, because they can jump on the train, go to Palma when they want.

Great. So that’s Monday to Friday.

Monday to Friday, yes. We try not to go to Palma Saturday and Sunday because anyway it’s Monday to Friday driving. So, for instance, Saturday morning they often go to Alaro, to the market. So, we pretty, you have a coffee in Canas. Our little one goes to kung fu there, so we like the Saturday mornings in Alaro very much.

And the people living around have a kind of own community. It’s very, I think it’s one of the most attractive rural communities and and and it’s like Alaro is kind of the hub and then you have Binissalem and Santa Maria. So it’s like people congregate. And we, we always say to people who are looking at that area as a potential to move there, you know, check out the market on a Saturday morning in Alaro because it’s, it’s something special and you’ll get a good feeling of the type of people who are going to be your neighbors, your community there, right?

And it’s also, I mean, there’s a lot of young, I mean, expats or foreigners coming to the island. There’s a lot of young families with young children there. So also for the kids community, if you go to the Alaro football club, there’s a lot of children from everywhere. It’s not only people from Alaro, right? So I think it’s good.

And you mentioned Pòrtol. I also think it’s very developing. One of our favorite restaurants is there, the Cafe Nou, you know, Cafe Nou. We had a business lunch there and it’s very, very, very nice. See you Saturday morning Alaro market. And what else, what other kind of things do you do at the weekend?

I have certainly friends coming for barbecue. Karen mentioned throughout the year you get friends visiting us.

And do they stay with you in the house then?

Some of them, my sister’s friends, you always stay with us and her husband, but others they rent the house somewhere nearby and then the kids going with the bikes in between. We love to do hikes. We love to do hikes with the dogs. We have two dogs, so take them out for a hike or or we go to the beach, right? Also.

And are you growing your own vines at this stage? Are you planting vines, olives?

Oh, beautiful. Planted this year. We planted, so we have two lands, one is the land just around the house and the other one was just land, unused, and we planted 400 olive trees there. Okay, okay, very nice. So hiking it would be a nice and for going for dinner then, where do you like to go out for dinner?

Well, it’s still Palma a lot, but I mentioned Cafe Nou. We, we go to we, for go to Pollença. Pollença. Exactly, Pollença. We also like to go there. Are we to the beach or to the…?

Well, okay, kite surfing first I would say for kite surfing. So we are kite surfers. So in terms of sports. So both of you kite surfers?

Yeah. And then actually the whole family.

The whole family. So there’s this beautiful place between Pollença and Formentor where you can, it’s a good bay to do kite surfing.

It’s a great bay, yeah. For sailing, kite surfing, wind surfing. Yeah. So that’s more winter, more, isn’t it? More winter spring, let’s say.

Both. Yeah, both. But we like in general, the north of the island is interesting because it’s not so, less tourists there, right? Especially in winter. Yeah, we like the restaurant Stay, because it is a restaurant which, it was never closed somehow, 365 days a year, always the nice people, they know each, us meanwhile and we, and you can sit there in that lovely shaded terrace looking out and each time we go everybody is happy. So there must be some, this restaurant has a, for us, it has a lovely aura. So we like it.

We like it too, actually. Maybe sometimes on Sunday we love to go to the market in Pollença and then have lunch at Stay and it’s always beautiful when you go there. It’s really, really nice. And I think that’s, and have you, do you feel that you’ve integrated quite easily in the community here? I know you’ve attended some of our events and met other, you know, people. Have you found that part of it challenging or easy?

Balancing business and family in Mallorca

No, it’s not challenging, but I think we could do more. It’s a time thing. It’s a time thing, yeah. And we talk often about it. It’s simply, we, we cannot lay, we are not in a in a position and we don’t want yet to really lay back, right? We really want to keep our Asian business up and running and want to build this up here as a challenge. We enjoy this. So you’re dedicating still a lot of. Yes. Then we have the three children. As a creative, it’s maybe different than you run a, let’s say, a trading business. In a trading business, you can create probably structures where, step by step, you can step back. As a head of creativity, which we are in the company, is very difficult. The clients still want to see us, of course, want to talk to us face to face. So the step back is something I think we need to work on and that means we need to spend a bit too much time on it. We could do more, but it’s not a challenge. The people are super nice here and we met extremely nice people here on the island. Yeah, what I love is the diversity. I mean, there are so many people always coming on the island and I have the feeling it’s something which somehow never stops. So, even if you have settled in and you have some friends around you, there are always popping up new people. I think it’s, and that’s, it’s a transient place also, isn’t it? People are coming and going and and interesting people. And I think even the last, I would say, 10 years in Mallorca, we’re attracting more and more people that could live anywhere in the world, but are choosing Mallorca because of the many advantages it brings.

What they’ve learned & advice to newcomers

Great. So to finalize, I want to ask you, now five years later, what tip or what insight would you share that from your experience that could help maybe others in any aspect, whether it’s family, buying a home, building a home, setting up a business, moving a business? Is there anything that stands out for you that you maybe wish you’d known when you were making the transition?

We can play ping pong. You say something. I think the, the most important is to be open, right? To be like a sponge, to really want to soak into a new culture and to be open to new challenges. Maybe for us it would have been good to know a bit more about the Spanish taxation system, I think. Okay, this we did after. That can be a surprise. Yes. But I think I would look at that, right, in comparison to the country you come from. I think there are some differences. I would say, think very careful about the location on the island. Even though the island is small, but it makes a difference where you live.

Huge, a huge difference.

Right. Maybe all those who live here, they know it makes a big difference if you live south of Palma, north of Palma, or far away or in Palma. And I think this is something very difficult to know before.

To know before, almost impossible. I have to say on this point, this is one of the services that we provide. I, I think it’s probably the biggest part of the service of a property buyer’s agency, is exactly that. So we have this really in-depth knowledge of all the, like, literally almost the streets in Palma. You know, do you live on that side of Santa Maria or on that one or that one because there’s different parts. And it’s trying to, and this is why we spend a huge amount of time asking loads of questions, trying to understand what is your dream lifestyle in Mallorca, because where you’re going to locate is going to have a huge influence on on whether you find that in that location or not. So I find always the property is secondary. It’s first of all, you know, what is the dream of your lifestyle and where on the island are you going to find that more easily, let’s say.

No, I fully agree. This is such a big difference and maybe that was also my learning because as Karen said, I was used to live in a city and in a city life is relatively easy because public infrastructure is normally fully developed. You don’t necessarily need a car. Everything is close by, no matter if the city is big or small. You know how this works. Countryside life implements, for instance, my friend was from Alaro, he, he before we came here, he said to us, “You will have at least two cars.” I said, “No, we don’t need it. We have always one car. It’s enough for the family.” But he’s completely right, right? And now our son is 19, he also wants to have a car. And not because he wants to have a car, because countryside life implements, even though there’s the train, it implements you need to be mobile. So, and and then where is the traffic jam every morning where you need to go? So it, it is really something, the island is very different based on its particular location. And that’s why, for example, families coming here, we always say, we have to understand which school, because your school is going to make a massive influence on where we will advise you to live, because you do not want to be stuck in traffic jams. It sounds doable initially, but the reality is something else. Exactly. So it’s, it, all these factors have to be taken into account and then you can start to really figure out where on the island is the best place to be. So yeah, thank you for sharing that with us. That’s been really very insightful.

Quickfire Mallorca favorites

So I always end with some quickfire questions and you can each say your answer. Beach or mountain? Beach. Beach.

Sunrise or sunset? Sunset. Sunset.

Summer heat or winter calm? Summer calm. Summer, I mean, it’s always both.

You like both, you like. Okay, we can live with that. Siesta or fiesta? Fiesta. Still fiesta.

Okay, great. Pamboli or ensaimada? Pamboli. Pamboli. Yes.

And north coast or south coast? North coast. North. Yeah, north coast.North coast.

Okay, great, super. You’re very complimentary. You like the same things, which is a good. So I want to thank you, Karen and Andreas so much for being here, for telling us your story. It sounds like it’s been such a journey from every aspect of your life. And I wish you many years of continued success in Mallorca. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you so much for this opportunity to come and for great. Thank you. Thank you for tuning into today’s episode of Mallorca Living. We hope you found it inspiring and uplifting. If you’re planning to relocate to Mallorca and buy a property here on the island, we would love to guide you and support you in your journey. Reach out to us today, book a consultation and let’s start your journey together to move to Mallorca.